Triggernometry’s Konstantin Kisin, who goes to great pains to underline his own support for Ukraine resisting Russia’s illegal war of territorial aggression, points out that it was Zelensky who screwed up big time in his White House meeting with Trump.
“When I watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with J.D. Vance.”
“As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, and interrupt and argue with President Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.”
Zelensky “led his country in heroic defense against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian prisoners of war in their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken.”
Zelensky has received so many accolades across the world that “his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality.”
“He argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that, in history, whoever starts the war pays. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true. In history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.”
“For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office would have been a shock to Zelensky.”
“To the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, president Zelensky, and forgive me for putting it this bluntly, is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win.” I think the majority of Trump’s supporters want to see Ukraine win, but don’t want to provide a blank check to accomplish it and/or don’t think it’s possible.
“To them this is just another forever war like Iraq or Afghanistan.”
“President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him and don’t particularly care about his just and righteous cause were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons, and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you’re attempting to convert other people’s goodwill into hard currency, that’s the bare minimum, and for 40 minutes Zelensky just about managed.”
“The way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid.”
“Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in the YouTube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this wasn’t a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side and the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re on the same side is Zelensky, or more importantly, his nation.”
“In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that, in Europe, we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia, and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.”
“These arguments don’t wash in America, and what’s worse, Americans hate people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why I believe President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.”
“None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly, but they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons and diplomatic support.”
“Zelensky’s job is to realize that he stopped being a human being when he became president of a country relying on foreign aid to survive. He doesn’t have the luxury of righteousness, and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did so.”
“Is this salvageable? I believe it is for the following reasons: First, Trump said as much. He sends Zelensky home to get him to realize that he needs to stop messing around, and made it clear that discussions can resume when Zelensky is ready for peace.”
“Secondly, the facts on the ground make some sort of settlement brokered by the US inevitable. Without foreign support, Ukraine’s brave defense would fold within weeks, and Europe, despite the cheerleading of its politicians, does not have the military, industrial capacity, or popular will to support Ukraine in this way by itself.”
“Zelensky needs Trump. Trump, on the other hand wants this war to end, and despite the glee of his base, would not want to go down in history as the president who abandoned Ukraine.” The majority of Trump’s base is not anti-Ukraine, they’re anti-paying for it. And those who confidently predict what Trump will or won’t think or do in a given situation frequently turn out to be wrong…
“All Zelensky has to do is apologize for his tactless behavior, and recognize that, like it or not, if you’re fighting a war with someone else’s weapons, they are going to have a say in how that war ends.”
Since that disasterous meeting, of course, Zelensky has been singing a different tune, and may end up following Kisin’s advice and giving Trump everything he asked for. Stay tuned…
I read a while back that Ukrainian is selling U.S. weapons for 20 cents on the dollar to some our worst enemies. If true, Zelenskyy can rot in hell for all I care.
“For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office would have been a shock to Zelensky.”
Prior to his being elected President of Ukraine, Zelensky earned a living as a comedian. To give a good performance, it is important to “read the room”. You have to win over the audience’s good-will if you are to have them join in the merriment.
It is perplexing that Zelensky was unable to “set the mood” in the Oval Office. He could have cracked a few jokes to loosen up the tension. Reagan joked about bombing the Soviet Union to good effect. Is Zelensky any less competent in this regard?
Perhaps he was afraid of looking silly or lacking gravitas. If so, it would have been entirely appropriate to abandon a chummy approach to negotiations and fall back on a severely diplomatic reserve. Engage the services of a translator. This gives you room to argue that any misunderstandings about negotiations are the product of mistranslation or misunderstanding.
Slow the whole process down. Dampen down any opportunity for anger to insinuate itself into the proceedings.
Zelensky has an advantage here. Trump (over)promised results. He would “end the war in twenty-four hours”.
That televised meeting wasn’t supposed to be a negotiation; everybody involved had agreed to sign the piece of paper. It was a photo-op, where the participants publicly lick each other to assure everybody they actually mean what is on the paper and, in this case, that it was the lead-in to something more substantial that everyone there wanted.
There should not have been anything to argue about in public. The very fact that an argument began means somebody screwed up. At least half the point of the mineral deal was so that when Putin asks why the US has inserted itself into the negotiations, Rubio or whoever can point at something concrete rather than cite something ephemeral.
America, Great Britain and Russia, et. al., were signatories to the Budapest Memorandum. This agreement obliged Washington, Moscow and London to “respect the independence and sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine” and to “refrain from the threat or use of force” against that country.
As I interpret this, Russia agreed to respect Ukrainian political autonomy. London and Washington, D.C. would enforce the pact.
There should be no doubt in Putin’s military mind as to why the US “ inserted” itself in the negotiations. Russia stands in blatant violation of the Budapest Memorandum and it is entirely appropriate for London and DC to demand accountability from Russia for its failure to honor terms of the agreement.
I agree with Kisin and Boobah. The US has no real interest in Ukraine other than it being something to annoy Russia. The deal is a fig leaf of a reason, but it was one. Zelensky supposedly flew to DC for one reason, but he showed duplicity by not signing the deal (for a second time). He validated the Trump supporters that do not trust Zelensky and torched even this fig leaf of a reason to care about his country. It was simply dumb.
Personally, I’m just interested in staying out of another unnecessary war. Russia, and especially Putin, isn’t going to cross two oceans to attack the US if the US does nothing and Ukraine falls. Putin isn’t that young and he’s run out of time to build a navy that could make that crossing. But he can lob missiles.
Every bit of this is false. Zelensky has been making a point of saying “Thank you America” in every single public statement he makes for the past three years. Zelensky did not pick any sort of fight; Vance did. Trump has not been trying to “make a deal”, he has been trying to buy Russia off to split them from China, which will not work. “Peace” on the terms Trump is advocating is not peace at all, it is Ukrainian surrender – which has NOT been won by Russia on the battlefield, but the US is attempting to impose anyway – and any kind of Ukrainian intransigence resulting from that is one hundred percent the fault of the people trying to impose it and they should have known better. Causing the aggressor in a war to pay is the only reliable way to prevent them from starting another war. And Konstantin Kisin himself is another Jen Rubin style figure who shows up out of nowhere with dubious antecedents, rides an ideological current for a while, and tries to steer it in a specific direction for private and unclear motives.
“Trump has not been trying to ‘make a deal’ he has been trying to buy Russia off to split them from China, which will not work.”
An alternate explanation is that Russia is being steadily weakened by the war in Ukraine and soon will be unable fight against another Chinese incursion into Russia’s Far East. The Chinese lost that gambit in 1961 but they are comparatively much stronger today.
Trump has to save Putin from himself if Chinese territorial ambitions are to be curbed.
“I’ve not seen such a report from any reliable source, only Russian shills.”
DoDIG Report 2024-097 offers a heavily redacted analysis of diverted NODs, Javelins, and Stingers.
Fox News reported last year a Heritage Foundation Freedom of Information Act request for an October 2023 DoDIG report which details specific instances in which U.S. shipments were intercepted by criminal actors in Ukraine. This IG report is still classified, but the July 24, 2023 Fox story on the report can be accessed at:
‘Some US arms shipments to Ukraine ending up in hands of criminal gangs, arms traffickers, watchdog says
Report says criminal gangs have stockpiled rifles, grenade launchers and thousands of rounds of ammunition’
Ukraine has a long history of fake EUC arms deals for their ex USSR weapons. Dave Gilson wrote a story for PBS Frontline back in May 2002 which is still available in some archives:
Ukrainian criminals were selling Soviet military equipment around the world without EUCs, even before the USSR collapsed. The Minsk agreements were a recognition of this, and a determination to keep Soviet nukes from being black marketed by Ukrainian criminals. But Ukrainian criminals were not deterred from selling out Ukraine’s vast stocks of Soviet conventional weapons.
Come 2014, the Ukrainians had nothing left to oppose Russia’s hybrid warfare. NATO and the U.S. spent 8 years pouring arms into Ukraine just a bit faster than those same Ukrainian criminals could sell them on the black market. Where do you think the Mexican cartels, ELN, and the followers of the “Religion of Peace” have been getting their rocket weapons?
The USG classified their investigations of the Ukrainian black marketeers so Ukrainian partisans could continue to claim that such stories were the product of “Russian shills”. The problem here is that several official reports leaked out, including DoDIG Report 2024-097 on NODs, Stingers, and Javelins disappearing from Ukraine. The Obama/Trump/Biden appointed Inspector General of the Department of Defense, Robert P. Storch, is hardly a “Russian shill”. He comes from the IC, where they have a pathological hatred of Russia.
I read a while back that Ukrainian is selling U.S. weapons for 20 cents on the dollar to some our worst enemies. If true, Zelenskyy can rot in hell for all I care.
I’ve not seen such a report from any reliable source, only Russian shills.
Mr. Person:
You may want to edit the third-to-last paragraph in which you note:
“…some sort of settlement broken by the US…”
I believe you may have meant to write “brokered”.
As always, thank you for the effort you put into this blog. It’s a daily stop for me in my surfing of the ‘net.
[Fixed – LP]
“For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office would have been a shock to Zelensky.”
Prior to his being elected President of Ukraine, Zelensky earned a living as a comedian. To give a good performance, it is important to “read the room”. You have to win over the audience’s good-will if you are to have them join in the merriment.
It is perplexing that Zelensky was unable to “set the mood” in the Oval Office. He could have cracked a few jokes to loosen up the tension. Reagan joked about bombing the Soviet Union to good effect. Is Zelensky any less competent in this regard?
Perhaps he was afraid of looking silly or lacking gravitas. If so, it would have been entirely appropriate to abandon a chummy approach to negotiations and fall back on a severely diplomatic reserve. Engage the services of a translator. This gives you room to argue that any misunderstandings about negotiations are the product of mistranslation or misunderstanding.
Slow the whole process down. Dampen down any opportunity for anger to insinuate itself into the proceedings.
Zelensky has an advantage here. Trump (over)promised results. He would “end the war in twenty-four hours”.
Addendum: Any delays in negotiations would then have reflected badly on Trump. As it stands now, any delays look like Zelensky is being petulant.
Zelensky was outplayed.
That televised meeting wasn’t supposed to be a negotiation; everybody involved had agreed to sign the piece of paper. It was a photo-op, where the participants publicly lick each other to assure everybody they actually mean what is on the paper and, in this case, that it was the lead-in to something more substantial that everyone there wanted.
There should not have been anything to argue about in public. The very fact that an argument began means somebody screwed up. At least half the point of the mineral deal was so that when Putin asks why the US has inserted itself into the negotiations, Rubio or whoever can point at something concrete rather than cite something ephemeral.
@ Boobah
America, Great Britain and Russia, et. al., were signatories to the Budapest Memorandum. This agreement obliged Washington, Moscow and London to “respect the independence and sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine” and to “refrain from the threat or use of force” against that country.
As I interpret this, Russia agreed to respect Ukrainian political autonomy. London and Washington, D.C. would enforce the pact.
There should be no doubt in Putin’s military mind as to why the US “ inserted” itself in the negotiations. Russia stands in blatant violation of the Budapest Memorandum and it is entirely appropriate for London and DC to demand accountability from Russia for its failure to honor terms of the agreement.
I agree with Kisin and Boobah. The US has no real interest in Ukraine other than it being something to annoy Russia. The deal is a fig leaf of a reason, but it was one. Zelensky supposedly flew to DC for one reason, but he showed duplicity by not signing the deal (for a second time). He validated the Trump supporters that do not trust Zelensky and torched even this fig leaf of a reason to care about his country. It was simply dumb.
Personally, I’m just interested in staying out of another unnecessary war. Russia, and especially Putin, isn’t going to cross two oceans to attack the US if the US does nothing and Ukraine falls. Putin isn’t that young and he’s run out of time to build a navy that could make that crossing. But he can lob missiles.
Every bit of this is false. Zelensky has been making a point of saying “Thank you America” in every single public statement he makes for the past three years. Zelensky did not pick any sort of fight; Vance did. Trump has not been trying to “make a deal”, he has been trying to buy Russia off to split them from China, which will not work. “Peace” on the terms Trump is advocating is not peace at all, it is Ukrainian surrender – which has NOT been won by Russia on the battlefield, but the US is attempting to impose anyway – and any kind of Ukrainian intransigence resulting from that is one hundred percent the fault of the people trying to impose it and they should have known better. Causing the aggressor in a war to pay is the only reliable way to prevent them from starting another war. And Konstantin Kisin himself is another Jen Rubin style figure who shows up out of nowhere with dubious antecedents, rides an ideological current for a while, and tries to steer it in a specific direction for private and unclear motives.
“Trump has not been trying to ‘make a deal’ he has been trying to buy Russia off to split them from China, which will not work.”
An alternate explanation is that Russia is being steadily weakened by the war in Ukraine and soon will be unable fight against another Chinese incursion into Russia’s Far East. The Chinese lost that gambit in 1961 but they are comparatively much stronger today.
Trump has to save Putin from himself if Chinese territorial ambitions are to be curbed.
“I’ve not seen such a report from any reliable source, only Russian shills.”
DoDIG Report 2024-097 offers a heavily redacted analysis of diverted NODs, Javelins, and Stingers.
Fox News reported last year a Heritage Foundation Freedom of Information Act request for an October 2023 DoDIG report which details specific instances in which U.S. shipments were intercepted by criminal actors in Ukraine. This IG report is still classified, but the July 24, 2023 Fox story on the report can be accessed at:
‘Some US arms shipments to Ukraine ending up in hands of criminal gangs, arms traffickers, watchdog says
Report says criminal gangs have stockpiled rifles, grenade launchers and thousands of rounds of ammunition’
Ukraine has a long history of fake EUC arms deals for their ex USSR weapons. Dave Gilson wrote a story for PBS Frontline back in May 2002 which is still available in some archives:
“Ukraine: Cashing in on Illegal Arms”
One of these things is not like the other:
“Ukrainian (sic) is selling U.S. weapons for 20 cents on the dollar…”
“Some US arms shipments to Ukraine ending up in hands of criminal gangs, arms traffickers,..”
Also,
“Ukraine has a long history of fake EUC arms deals for their ex USSR weapons…”
So Ukraine is equally accountable for “ex USSR” weaponry as is is for “US arms shipments…””??
Nobody remotely familiar with logic is going to accept your post hoc arguments.
The host’s “Russian shills” categorization remains unrefuted.
“One of these things is not like the other:”
Let me help you with the logic, in slow English.
Ukrainian criminals were selling Soviet military equipment around the world without EUCs, even before the USSR collapsed. The Minsk agreements were a recognition of this, and a determination to keep Soviet nukes from being black marketed by Ukrainian criminals. But Ukrainian criminals were not deterred from selling out Ukraine’s vast stocks of Soviet conventional weapons.
Come 2014, the Ukrainians had nothing left to oppose Russia’s hybrid warfare. NATO and the U.S. spent 8 years pouring arms into Ukraine just a bit faster than those same Ukrainian criminals could sell them on the black market. Where do you think the Mexican cartels, ELN, and the followers of the “Religion of Peace” have been getting their rocket weapons?
The USG classified their investigations of the Ukrainian black marketeers so Ukrainian partisans could continue to claim that such stories were the product of “Russian shills”. The problem here is that several official reports leaked out, including DoDIG Report 2024-097 on NODs, Stingers, and Javelins disappearing from Ukraine. The Obama/Trump/Biden appointed Inspector General of the Department of Defense, Robert P. Storch, is hardly a “Russian shill”. He comes from the IC, where they have a pathological hatred of Russia.
Let me offer context: “Ukrainian (sic) is selling U.S. weapons for 20 cents on the dollar…”
Cf w/ “Ukrainian criminals were selling Soviet military equipment around the world without EUCs, even before the USSR collapsed.”
Ukraine was a Russian satrapy in 1991, when criminal gangs were the only sure means of getting scarce Western and/or other illicit goods.
They had a steady supply of Scotch whisky and American blue jeans but “U.S. weapons were most assuredly not available at an 80% discount.
So not only is your post hoc argument illegitimate, you add to the confusion by gratuitously tossing in an historical anachronism.
To your “credit”, your “Russian shill” score gets additional points for this misbegotten effort.
Read DoDIG Report 2024-097 on NODs, Stingers, and Javelins disappearing from Ukraine LAST YEAR, not 1991.
I am delighted to have achieved the same “Russian shill score” as the Biden’s Inspector General of the Department of Defense, Robert P. Storch.